195. What Leaders Can Learn from Sports Reporting with Jen Mueller
- Teri Schmidt
- 11 minutes ago
- 29 min read
We’ve all heard the advice to “be an effective communicator.” But what does that really mean beneath the buzzword? In this episode, veteran sports reporter and Talk Sporty to Me founder Jen Mueller shares lessons from 25 years on the sidelines, where conversations happen under pressure, in the heat of wins and losses. Together, we explore how those lessons translate into clearer, more courageous communication for business leaders.
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About Jen:
Jen Mueller is a business communication expert and the founder of Talk Sporty to Me, where she helps companies level up their communication skills with actionable strategies inspired by her 25-year career as a sports broadcaster.
An Emmy-award-winning producer, Jen is in her 16th season as the Seattle Seahawks sideline radio reporter and has spent 18 years with the Seattle Mariners on ROOT SPORTS. She’s known for building strong relationships, delivering meaningful content in short bursts, and expertly handling post-game interviews (while dodging Gatorade baths!).
Jen has worked the sidelines of NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, WNBA, and college games, earning the Keith Jackson Media Excellence Award in 2022. She’s also the author of three books on communication and the creator and host of “I Cook, You Measure”—a YouTube cooking show that blends instruction with connection over food and wine. Jen graduated from Southern Methodist University with degrees in Broadcast Journalism and Public Policy—though none of this was on her radar at the time!
Transcript
While it's not perfect, we offer this transcription by Castmagic for those who prefer to read or who are hearing impaired.
Teri Schmidt [00:00:02]:
Well, hi, Jen. Welcome to the Strong Leaders Serve podcast. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today.
Jen Mueller [00:00:07]:
Oh, this is going to be a fun one, Terri. I have been eyeing this one for a while on my calendar.
Teri Schmidt [00:00:13]:
Well, excellent. And I know you're usually on the other side of the microphone, so I'm excited to have you share that experience and that expertise and especially as we talk about what it means to be an effective communicator. But I'd love to start with your story because even though that is a phrase, you know, effective communicator, that sounds simple, it can be actually incredibly complex. I know. And you've spent 25 years in sports where communication and under pressure isn't optional.
Jen Mueller [00:00:46]:
Right.
Teri Schmidt [00:00:47]:
So I'd love to hear about your journey and some of the things that you've learned along the way.
Jen Mueller [00:00:52]:
Well, as you mentioned, I've spent 25 years in sports broadcasting. I've done both television and radio. I have been behind the scenes as a producer and I have been in front of the cameras and with a microphone actually delivering the stories and the post game interviews. It's been a really fun ride. When I first got into sports broadcasting, you know, there weren't that many women who were doing this. And so the advice we were given was to just be quiet. The advice we were given was to not draw attention to ourselves, to make sure that nobody knew that we were the woman in the room. And I got to be honest, when you walk into a locker room full of men, it's pretty hard to figure out or hide the fact that you were the only woman in there.
Jen Mueller [00:01:35]:
But I say that because, you know, I think at the time it was well intentioned advice. Nobody really knew what to do. So what I was craving was, was the actual practical advice that would help me do my job better. Instead, I kept hearing, hey, just put yourself in the corner and try to not rock the boat. Because that's what's going to be easiest for everybody. When we think about effective communication, there's so many things that we either keep hidden, intentionally or otherwise, or that we fail to say that creates these huge barriers. And it's as simple as not finishing the thought we have in our head. And I don't have the luxury of doing that because I don't get to go back and ask for that interview a second or a third time.
Jen Mueller [00:02:23]:
It has to be done right now, on deadline, in a very short amount of time.
Teri Schmidt [00:02:29]:
Right, Right. I think about your experience and I can't imagine, because I watch a lot of hockey and so I'm a Dallas Stars fan, and I can't imagine going into those locker rooms after a Game 6 or a Game 7 loss in the playoffs or, you know, on the other side, I. I can't imagine going in after a win. Of course, I'm sure that's a little bit more fun, but, you know, most of us would avoid those conversations if we think of the equivalent in the workplace, because those are high emotion. You're probably thinking, let's just let that settle a little bit before we have that conversation. So I'd love to hear about what you've learned about the courage that it takes to. To walk into that discomfort instead of away from it.
Jen Mueller [00:03:16]:
Well, there's a few things that I make sure that I do personally before I walk into the room, and then there's a few things that sports actually does to make this easier. So from the sports point of view, when you go to a hockey game, every single person in that arena knows what the objective is. The objective is to win the game, and you are going to do that by scoring more goals than the other team. And that seems like it is overly simplified and really obvious. But too often in business, we are not as clear as we need to be on what that objective is. Whether that is what high performance looks like, whether that is what success looks like, a deadline looks like. There's all sorts of things that we assume people can either read our mind or are already on the same page. Sports doesn't do that.
Jen Mueller [00:04:06]:
Sports is very, very clear. So when I already have the expectation set that you are going in to win the game, when you come up short, everybody knows there's going to be a conversation about why you came up short and what went wrong in this whole process. So sports takes care of that part. There's the expectation already that I'm going to go in there. When I do go in there, there's a couple of things I have to remember. Number one, they just want to get it over with. They already know what happened. They already know how they screwed up, how they came up short, how they failed to execute on what they practiced all week long or what they practiced for the last couple of days.
Jen Mueller [00:04:46]:
They already know. You cannot ease your way into that conversation. You don't have to be confrontational and you don't have to be rude, but you do just need to come out and say, what happened on that power play? What happened when you couldn't make the catch in the end zone? Right. Just tell me your side of the story. Okay. And Then number two, I need to take myself out of the equation. There is a lot of emotion in a locker room after any outcome, but it's not directed at me. If I can just recognize the human being that's standing in front of me and understand that I know how it feels to disappoint somebody or to come up short or to not perform the way that I wanted to just sit and let them have that emotion.
Jen Mueller [00:05:35]:
Which means their answer might be short. Their answer might seem abrupt to people listening on the other side. It might sound rude, but I already had a win because you chose to answer my question. So if you reframe what's actually happening in that moment and take your own ego and emotion out of it now, I can let you have the space that you need while answering something that quite honestly, you probably don't want to talk about at the end of your workday.
Teri Schmidt [00:06:06]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are two threads in there that I'd love to dig into a little bit further. First, you talked about, you know, your work is kind of done for you in terms of the expectation setting. You either met it or you didn't. And I think that is, you know, a challenge at the beginning of a difficult conversation sometimes for leaders, if that expectation hasn't been set clearly because then they don't have something to cleanly refer back to. And so that's almost a whole nother conversation or a whole nother part of that conversation that they have to have on top of this discomfort riddled conversation that they have to have anyway because someone isn't meeting that performance that maybe they didn't share clearly originally.
Jen Mueller [00:06:51]:
Yeah. And so when we think about tough conversations, if we focus on the fundamentals of effective communication, those tough conversations get easier. So what I advise leaders to do, and actually everybody in every interaction use the ETA formula. So that's what I started using in locker rooms to make sure that I got exactly what I needed from interviews. And I know ETA normally stands for estimated time of arrival. It's very convenient. So now every time you get into your car, you will think about this as well. But for me it stands for expectation, timeline and action item.
Jen Mueller [00:07:29]:
So if I'm asking you for an interview, I'm not just going to say, do you have time for an interview today? That's one way to ask the question would, which would be the equivalent of a leader saying, can you get this done? Okay, now done. There's a whole bunch of different ways we can define done. And when I think about what we actually need to Communicate effectively. I have to spell it out for you. Expectation, timeline and action item. When I'm asking for an interview, do you have time to answer two questions about this weekend's matchup? I can find you after practice. Everybody can be in agreement on what that looks like and if you don't agree to any part of that equation, we can level set. Oh, after practice today doesn't work, but after practice tomorrow does.
Jen Mueller [00:08:15]:
Great. Now we've agreed to that. If you don't show up for that interview, I've got a much easier entry point back to say, hey, what happened? We agreed that this was going to take place and here's what was going to happen. Same thing if we're talking about a business situation. Right. Can you get the job done? How about if we add some ETA on top of this? Right? Can you pull all of the financials from Q1 and Q2 and get those to me by 4 o' clock on Friday? You're going to say yes or no. We are going to come into agreement if 4 o' clock on Friday comes and goes. And I have not gotten that from you.
Jen Mueller [00:08:55]:
Now I've got an easier way to come back and say, okay, is everything okay? We agreed on this. What got in the way and now that conversation is expected.
Teri Schmidt [00:09:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious because it seems simple and I'm sure listeners have heard a lot of people talk about needing to set clear expectations when they're delegating. And in particular, what do you think gets in the way? What. What keeps leaders from clearly defining their expectations in that way?
Jen Mueller [00:09:27]:
I think we have a hard time slowing down and being very honest and very clear of what we want to get out of that or what we want to do. You know, we either assume that people can read our minds or that we're going to get to the same conclusion. Sometimes you don't want to feel like you're micromanaging or nagging, but the reality is you've got to sit with it. It probably takes you longer than you want to send a very clear email, text or slack message. But that clarity allows people to move with confidence and allows them to take the next right steps. And I think we need to sit with things instead of just checking it off the to do list that I turned it over to you. Now this is your problem to solve and now you can go off and do this. What do I need to get.
Jen Mueller [00:10:17]:
And in sports broadcasting, I get one shot and I have to know exactly what I'm going to get out of those two questions. And so I need to sit with what that ask is before I ever bring it up with an athlete.
Teri Schmidt [00:10:31]:
Yeah. And I don't think that should be different necessarily in leadership either that pre thinking that sitting with it before the actual encounter or the actual ask.
Jen Mueller [00:10:43]:
Yeah. And it changes everything about the conversation. It is everything from could you call me when you get a chance to let me know what you think? To you know, do you have time to chat? We think we're communicating and what we're actually doing is creating a lot of drama and confusion. All anybody wants is to be able to contribute, to have value and to know that they're doing something great for the team. It doesn't matter if you're an athlete or if it is your team at work. And the clearer you can make that by going one step further. Right. Could you call me sometime before 5:00'? Clock? I've got a few ideas I want to run past you on a new marketing campaign and I think you're the person to ask.
Jen Mueller [00:11:31]:
That makes all the difference in how that conversation is received and the level of communication that was had.
Teri Schmidt [00:11:39]:
Yeah, yeah. And I love what I heard in there too about I think you're the person to ask. You are showing them that they matter, that they're needed. You're also injecting a little bit of the why there so that they, they have that meaning behind their work. And you can further expound upon that as you're talking. But even just in that short couple of sentences you gave, you gave some clarity around what was going to be asked behind the why, why it matters. And then you're able to build on that in the conversation with the person.
Jen Mueller [00:12:16]:
Yep, yep.
Teri Schmidt [00:12:18]:
That's great. That's great. Well, one thing that I heard you talk about is open ended questions and in particular in negotiations when you said that they're not always helpful. So open ended questions aren't always helpful in negotiations. Can you tell me more about that? I'm curious.
Jen Mueller [00:12:36]:
I consider every interaction that I have with an athlete a negotiation. None of them have to talk to me. I am always trying to convince them as to why they should talk to me right now about a certain subject. And here is what I have learned in all of the hundreds of thousands of interviews and people that I've talked to. The answer is what the answer was always going to be. Now if you were talking about I'm negotiating for one extra vacation day or I'm looking for this much more revenue for this outcome. Yeah, there's some wiggle room there, but in general, the answer is what the answer is you could go and ask for a raise if that raise is 25% of what you are already making. And that just isn't going to work based on the pool of money to be divvied up.
Jen Mueller [00:13:23]:
It does not matter how many ways you ask the question or state your case and try to make this very fluffy. So here's what we need to do. Just ask the real question and it's okay to ask a yes no question because sometimes the answer is yes or no. Was this within the scope of work that you were looking at? Now I hope that the answer is yes, right? Because if I want you to hire me, I hope the answer is yes. But 14 paragraphs and a whole bunch of questions in an email does not change whether it fits into your budget or not or whether it's the scope of work. So stop with the extra and don't be afraid of how that conversation is going to play out. Just ask the question because the clarity right there is more valuable than anything else. And now you can come back with would you like me to resubmit the proposal or would you like me to circle back around in six months when this might be a better option for you? Right.
Jen Mueller [00:14:30]:
Don't be afraid of what the outcome is. It's not about you. Because the answer was what the answer was always going to be.
Teri Schmidt [00:14:40]:
That gets back to what you were talking about, that the emotion in the locker room isn't directed to you. I think when you just said it's not about you, the answer or was what it was going to be what is that the main obstacle that when you're working with leaders you see to them being able to get to that question directly, you know, or is it something else that keeps them from doing that?
Jen Mueller [00:15:07]:
Well, again, it's a lot of fear, like the internal fear of how that plays out or how that feels on the other side of the conversation. I think the other part of this is we count on conversational norms and conventional wisdom and we count on somebody else to carry the other part of the conversation. You know, a lot of times when I am talking to folks about open ended questions and closed ended questions, you know, I am thinking about it from the broadcasting standpoint. My post game interviews are generally three questions. I don't have time to ease into that conversation. Every question has a very specific answer and conventional wisdom would tell you that all open ended questions are good because it gets people talking. And most of the time people will answer your question because that is our conversational norm. It doesn't mean it's the right answer, it doesn't mean it's a good answer.
Jen Mueller [00:16:07]:
It doesn't mean that it's the answer that gets you closer. We have this illusion that we are communicating and talking to each other, but we really didn't know what we wanted to get out of the question in the first place. We really didn't know how it was going to further the conversation. We really didn't know what direction we were going to take because we didn't think through the entire conversation. Which is not to say that I'm trying to put words into somebody's mouth, but if I ask you an open ended question, there is a fear on the other side that you don't want to disappoint me and you don't know what the right answer is and the easier I can make that answer. So I always go into a post game interview thinking the answer should be easy and obvious. Not that they want to talk about the error or, you know, what happened on the power play, but they know there's only one answer to that question and they have full confidence they can give the answer whether anybody likes that answer or not.
Teri Schmidt [00:17:04]:
Mm, mm. Yeah, yeah. The. I love that the answer should be easy and obvious when you're asking that question. And I think what I'm hearing there too, getting back to what we were talking about, about the preparation necessary before the communication is that you are being intentional with every question that you're asking, with every conversation that you're going into. Of course we're working with a human to human interaction, so it may not play out directly accorded to your script, but at least you have a goal going in and you've thought about what their goal might be and how they might respond.
Jen Mueller [00:17:48]:
Yeah. And you don't have to know what the answer is, but you do know what it feels like when you need to make a decision. Right. You know what you would appreciate in the decision making process, it's an easy and obvious decision. Right. Whether it's no, I can't give you 25% as your raise this year, I can however, give you 5%. And here's how we can help work towards the next part. Right.
Jen Mueller [00:18:14]:
It's just, it's removing confusion, it is being kind, it is being easy to talk to. Because when you are easy to talk to, people probably will. And that is half the battle of relationship building, that is half the battle of leadership and trust. If people are afraid to talk to you for their own insecurities or just kind of how awkward that is or the fear that exists. It's hard to be an effective leader if people don't feel comfortable having a conversation.
Teri Schmidt [00:18:42]:
And if they have that stability and that confidence that they know what they're going to get when they're talking to you, that makes it even easier to come to with the tough topics, the tough conversations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you touched on this a little bit, but I just want to dig in a little bit deeper about thoughtful questions and how they can build trust and uncover hidden needs. What does that look like in practice, either from your experience on the sidelines or maybe working with leaders in the workplace?
Jen Mueller [00:19:16]:
So it probably means using the first question that comes to mind as the starting point, but probably developing that one one or two times past where you were going to go, right? So here's an example from the sidelines. If you are a sports fan, you hear this one all the time. There's a big win and the reporter will ask, how did it feel? And I can tell you because I have covered both a Super bowl win and a crushing super bowl loss, the answer to that question is pretty self explanatory, right? How do you think it feels to win the Super Bowl? It feels awesome. What, what answer were you possibly going to get that was like genuine, real and authentic? Flip side, how does it feel to lose a Super Bowl? It's the worst crushing feeling you could possibly imagine as a professional, right? If I really want you to talk about the feeling of celebration, I need to go one or two steps past that. So if we're going to talk about celebration, my question might end up to be because look, everybody likes the feeling of celebrating, right? Who's the first person you're going to call to celebrate this win with? And now I've got more storytelling involved in it because now you're going to tell me about your parent, your spouse, your sibling, your former coach who helped get you to this point. And now this is a shared experience because we all have the person that we would call with good news, right? It also might be, how long are you going to give yourself to celebrate this win? Now I'm talking about the fact that I can't get to see my family until the middle of the week or they're all flying. There's a story there, right? And so I am looking to go one step further to make that connection so that you are forced to tell me a story, even if it sounds like it is a closed question, right? So if we ask the question, how does it feel that is an open ended question? I could give any number of answers to that question. You're probably going to get the same answer over and over and over again because nobody wants to give the wrong answer.
Jen Mueller [00:21:35]:
You know, go outside the line, talk too much about themselves, talk too much about the win rate. If I just set up a space where you know what the answer is, I've added value to the conversation. I've also built trust and rapport because now they can relax and know I've got you in this. Right. It was thoughtful. I knew exactly what I was trying to accomplish and. And you and I just made a connection in just a few seconds.
Teri Schmidt [00:22:02]:
Yeah. What a great. Excuse me. What a great example. How would that translate to the workspace?
Jen Mueller [00:22:10]:
Yeah. So I think really it's just about any number of things. Anytime you think about the open ended question, think about what you were actually trying to get out of it. So let's go to feedback. Right. Could you let me know what you think about this or what do you think about this? How many times do we just ask for that? Right. It's the end of an email or maybe it's the end of a meeting. Right.
Jen Mueller [00:22:37]:
Does anybody have anything to add? Okay. How many times do people just readily raise their hand and stay on topic while talking about the thing that they want to add? Right. There's a lot of different things that I could add. But let's narrow this down and let's be really thoughtful about it. Does anybody have anything to add related to the timeline of the new marketing idea based on their experience within this group? That is a very different question and that focuses the conversation right where we need it to go. If we're going to ask, what are your thoughts on this? It's going to be very difficult to get actionable feedback because I didn't make this easy and obvious. Here's where yes, no questions really come into play. What do you think about the font size and the information I used in the PowerPoint? Those are the two things I'm looking for feedback on.
Jen Mueller [00:23:38]:
And those are pretty easy. You either like them or you don't like them. And now I know if I need to change them and if that's not the issue, then you're gonna tell me what it is. Right. Narrow that focus, you'll get a more effective answer and you're probably gonna get a quicker response too.
Teri Schmidt [00:23:58]:
Yeah. And that goes in line with a lot of times I will talk to leaders who have asked their team for feedback and they're just Frustrated because they're not getting any feedback. And you have two things that work there. You have the power differential first, but then it's also. It wasn't specific. The answer wasn't easy, as you had said. So what we talk about is, is there something you're working on, particularly as a leader and can you say, I'm working on this?
Jen Mueller [00:24:28]:
Yeah.
Teri Schmidt [00:24:28]:
How did I do in this meeting with this particular skill?
Jen Mueller [00:24:32]:
Yes.
Teri Schmidt [00:24:32]:
For example.
Jen Mueller [00:24:33]:
Yes. And you can use what we would think about is non traditional questions to get feedback. We do it all the time. So you could have folks rank things in order of importance or based on how you did it. I'm working on clarity in my messaging, respecting everybody's time and getting everybody involved. Could you rank which one I did best at? Second best at and third best at? Right. If that. If we're still trying to get over some of the power differential and encouraging people to give feedback.
Jen Mueller [00:25:06]:
Because again, we need to make this safe for people. If you want real feedback, we need to show them that the these answers are okay. And it's okay to say that I wasn't very good at respecting people's time today. Okay. That's the feedback that I need. Right. On a scale of 1 to 10, how did I do with each one of those things? Anything is possible on that. Right.
Jen Mueller [00:25:28]:
But it. The minute I put parameters around this, it's so much easier to get the answers that you really need.
Teri Schmidt [00:25:35]:
Yeah, definitely. Have you had an experience where being so planned out and directive and knowing what you were going for has in a sense not put blinders on the conversation, but perhaps kept you from surfacing some information or stories that might have come with a more open ended approach.
Jen Mueller [00:25:59]:
Here'S how I look at preparing for conversations and I'll tell people this. Whether you're giving presentations or you're writing out questions for a podcast, when you know what you're trying to accomplish, it's so much easier to go off script. Because I know how to get right back on script. I would say where it trips me up most often is in small talk. And I hate to admit that because I am really big on the power of small talk, but I can get very focused on where I'm going next in the conversation and I forget to bring things to the conversation, I forget to be interesting, I forget to ask the question. But in a business setting, I do think that having that awareness allows me to show up and be authentic and present in the moment because I'm not worried about what I'm not going to get accomplished. Does that make sense? I'm not worried that I'm going to walk away from that conversation and not get my outcome taken care of. I do get a chance to go off script a little bit more, dive in and then say, oh, we needed to get back to just this one more thing, or I have this last question, or I did not get the answer that we needed on, you know, whatever topic is still remaining on the agenda.
Teri Schmidt [00:27:14]:
Yeah, yeah, that pre thought that pre planning gives you the flexibility to go different directions and shift if you need to, because you know that you have in your mind what the ultimate goal was and you will ultimately get back to that.
Jen Mueller [00:27:27]:
That, and I think a lot of that comes from live TV and radio. You know, we practice before we actually go on live tv. Our back and forth and our banter isn't scripted, but we have an idea of where we want it to go. And here's what often happens. We will rehearse the entire pregame show and we'll have this great banter back and forth and we'll all have our notes written and we know where we're trying to go. And then real life and real TV happens and somebody says exactly what you were going to say right before you said it, which is frustrating. And you're like, oh, you just took the words right out of my mouth. But if I know all the other things that I can bring up in that conversation, I'm not going to panic.
Jen Mueller [00:28:08]:
Right. Just because it didn't go exactly according to script doesn't mean that it's not helpful. It means that I've still got an entire sheet of stats to pull from and talking points so that it skips, stays on track and we don't go off the rails during a live TV broadcast.
Teri Schmidt [00:28:24]:
Yeah, that's a great example because that is such a high pressure situation and you have to, you know, in the moment shift and change where you're going so that, you know, if, if there's a leader out there who is thinking about a conversation that they have coming up, I can't imagine how it would be even higher pressure than being on live tv.
Jen Mueller [00:28:48]:
Well, it's a different pressure.
Teri Schmidt [00:28:48]:
And so the strategy should work.
Jen Mueller [00:28:50]:
Yes, yes. And I think about questions both ways. I think about the answer as a positive and I think about the question of what if they don't respond well to this? I think about, did I throw somebody inadvertently under the bus? These interviews are taking place in front of teammates and coaches and fans and front office people. Right. And so when you practice the conversation, it's like the choose your own adventure. You can go back through and choose the other adventure and figure out, how would I say this if some. If something happens, how do I not respond defensively? You know, again, what am I really trying to accomplish? What are the words I can use? How can I say this to keep things on track, even if this goes completely towards left field? And I. I did not anticipate it doing that.
Teri Schmidt [00:29:38]:
Mm. Mm. When you see either other broadcasters, and I obviously won't ask you to name names, but either other people in your line of work or leaders that you've had the opportunity to work with or to witness really struggle with this idea of preparation. What usually needs to shift in them in order for them to do it.
Jen Mueller [00:30:04]:
Effectively Realizing how powerful small interactions are. I call them bubblegum moments. So our pitching coach for the Mariners used to hand me a piece of bubble gum before he walked onto the field and walked towards the bullpen. And it was kind of a little inside joke for a couple of years. And I am either on TV or getting ready to go on tv. And so I would put the bubble gum in my little makeup kit that I only take on the sidelines that only has, like, three tubes of lipstick and hairspray and powder. Right? There's nothing in this bag. And I wouldn't think about that bubble gum again until I couldn't zip the bag up.
Jen Mueller [00:30:45]:
And as it turns out, one or two pieces of gum doesn't take up a lot of room. 5, 6, and 7 pieces of gum mean that I can't zip that bag again. And I've joked with them over the years because I'll talk about that in corporate presentations, and I'll just tell him, look, we have a hard time visualizing what a small action or interaction does. I know the power of one word, one question, and 15 seconds, because that's how we talk in TV. And so if we recognize as leaders that bubble gum effect, that bubble gum moment, all you're trying to do. Here's another sports analogy, is stack wins. You can't do everything. Can't be a home run.
Jen Mueller [00:31:27]:
Everything is not a touchdown pass. It has to be about stacking wins. So if I look at that and I get more strategic about how I'm going to get those wins. I know from listening to hours of myself talking and transcribing interviews. I know when I didn't prepare, and I know when that question led to an answer that everybody else got. I also know what happens when I took time to prepare and And I got a funny laugh out loud, genuine story that I had never heard before because there was a different type of space created. And so I would encourage everybody to think about the bubble gum and how many different ways can you figure out how to stack wins and to have those bubble gum moments during the course of the day.
Teri Schmidt [00:32:15]:
That's interesting because you're talking about the small moments. And immediately my brain went to, well, if it's a small, small moment, I don't need to worry about preparing very much.
Jen Mueller [00:32:25]:
No, that's. So I would say this. In broadcasting, networking happens just a few seconds at a time. And seconds are how we measure conversations on TV. We do not measure them in minutes. You get 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 45 seconds. That's generally how we talk. If you only get 15 seconds to tell a story, you have to be really, really choosy with your words, very concise and telling your story in a very specific way in a locker room.
Jen Mueller [00:32:56]:
I don't get to go to happy hour with these guys. We don't eat lunch together. There's no networking events. They don't have the time, or quite honestly, the tolerance to talk to me for 30 minutes at a time, which would be my preference because that's how I like to relate to people in general. I get less than 60 seconds of their time. I know the power of hello and I know the power of making sure that those few seconds count because all of that is what leads to authentic, honest conversations on game day, following wins and losses. I have to be very dialed into that conversation because I don't, I don't get leeway on either side of a cup of coffee because that's just not how we're interacting during the course of the day.
Teri Schmidt [00:33:42]:
Yeah. And if I think of the parallel in leadership, if you have done your research on your team member, meaning you know what makes them tick, you know what their strengths are, you know about, you know, maybe something outside of work. You can create those small moments because you have done that sort of preparation.
Jen Mueller [00:34:06]:
And the words that you choose make a powerful difference. So part of this, if I take this conversation back to the tough conversation and how we set expectations, the way we deliver praise not only helps with tough conversations, but it really adds value to your team. These interactions don't have to be long. It doesn't mean that you need to have one on ones every week. If you're not already doing that, that maybe that is a valuable piece to the puzzle that you're going to implement. But just handing out an accurate Compliment can make all the difference in the world. So, for example, I could tell you that you did a great job. Right? And I hand out great jobs just like kids going through the handshake line after their little league game.
Jen Mueller [00:34:55]:
Right? Great job, great job, great job, great job. But if I say you really came through in the clutch and I appreciate that effort, that lands a little bit differently to the person who really prides themselves on coming through when they know that it is a situation they need to take care of. High pressure in the clutch, recognizing somebody as being on time, deadline driven is accurate and would likely hit their heart more than saying great job. And it's very important on the other side of that because when I give accurate praise, it makes me. It makes it easier for me to give accurate feedback as a result. So when you get to know your team and you could even give them a list of words, I'll do this. Put five words on the page, ask them to rank those words in order. Those words could be clutch, astounding, superb, superb, timely.
Jen Mueller [00:35:53]:
Right. Awesome. Doesn't really matter what the words are, just get a wide range of words and ask your team to rank those words in order of their preference. You will find out a lot about how they receive praise and what lands with them. Change one word and how you talk about their work and you change everything about how they feel regarding the job that they did.
Teri Schmidt [00:36:19]:
Interesting. I had never thought about asking people about different words like that. And I can think about how much insight you would gain into them just through that simple activity. So thank you for that. Well, if there's someone out there that is saying, you know, this sounds like a lot of work, a lot of preparation, you know, I have so much else on my plate. Why is this worth it to invest the time in preparation?
Jen Mueller [00:36:48]:
Because ultimately you are going to get more done in less time. I know this does not feel like it's less time, but when you start thinking strategically and when you start communicating with intention, that's effective communication. We don't need more communication. We don't need to say the same thing. You don't need to have a meeting about the same topic for six weeks before implementing whatever that new strategy is, right? When you take time at the beginning, you're going to get more out of it. You're also going to build the team that you want around you so that they can function with confidence, so that they can truly put their skills in position to be valuable to you. And once you start thinking about these things, whether it's ETA or Using that one word to compliment it really does become second nature. And it doesn't mean that every single conversation you have is going to be executed like this.
Jen Mueller [00:37:44]:
There are plenty of times I walk into the coffee shop and I don't have anything to say. Right. It's just knowing that that tool is there for you and that a small change can make a big difference in your level of communication. Yeah.
Teri Schmidt [00:38:02]:
Yeah. Well, if there's a leader that wants to practice this week, maybe wants to start stacking wins and, you know, maybe not just learning a new type of question, but really stretching who they are as a communicator, what's one way they could start.
Jen Mueller [00:38:17]:
Oh, gosh. In addition to the ones that we already have. Okay, I would say this. There's two things. Number one, ask a question you don't know the answer to. That is how you practice vulnerability. And it's not going to feel comfortable, but if you practice in small moments, it's going to make it easier when you're in front of your entire team. And the second one I would say is use the question, how are you to deliver a success statement? So success statement goes beyond the one word response.
Jen Mueller [00:38:52]:
How are you? Is an open ended question. And most often instead of giving a lengthy response, we default to good, fine, great. When we go one step further, we're going to be able to connect to our team and make the follow up questions easy and obvious. So when somebody from your team, or maybe you just practice this with the barista at the coffee shop. Right. How are you today? I'm awesome. My inbox is totally clean and my team is on track for a big deadline. I've just shared with you a couple of things that I'm really proud of.
Jen Mueller [00:39:33]:
My inbox is totally clean. Which, by the way, if you have that, I am so impressed with you because 300 emails in my inbox, right? That's a huge win. Right? You've gotten a chance to brag about your team and now I've got two topics that I could ask you about to keep the conversation going. And you've just given me insight into who you are when you do this. As a leader, you're also giving your team permission to do the same thing and they should be doing that. They should be sharing wins, they should be talking about their family. We shouldn't be waiting for the real conversation to start after that exchange. That is the most pivotal moment in every single conversation.
Jen Mueller [00:40:11]:
We just overlook it. So practice being strategic and intentional. And by the way, you only need one maybe Two success statements for the week. You don't have to do this 60 times. I have a couple, I know going into the week, things that I want to talk about that I know nobody's going to ask me about unless I bring up. So now this is your chance to practice those conversation skills, making it easy for people to ask questions, to connect with you. And we're just kind of bringing everything full circle there with what it looks like to communicate effectively.
Teri Schmidt [00:40:47]:
Yeah. It's so simple and definitely is something that a leader could try. And even if you aren't someone who likes to be on stage or have the spotlight on you, you said one or two success statements and you were able to speak them in a matter of seconds. But it does so much to open up the conversation as well as to give people insight into who you are as a person. So I love that.
Jen Mueller [00:41:11]:
Yeah. And use sports. If it feels uncomfortable to talk about yourself, use sports. I love the outcome of Sunday's game. I loved watching my alma mater win on Saturday. It's just as easy to start a conversation that way as it is to talk about work.
Teri Schmidt [00:41:29]:
Very true, Very true. Well, thank you so much for this, Jen. If people want to learn more about you and the work that you do, where is the best place for them to go?
Jen Mueller [00:41:38]:
The website is talksportytome.com you can also find me on YouTube and all the socials will get you to me as well if you just search. Talk sporty to me.
Teri Schmidt [00:41:48]:
Excellent. Well, thank you again for your time today. Thank you for what you are doing both in the world of sports and in the world of leadership and business, to help us all connect better and be more effective communicators.
Jen Mueller [00:42:02]:
Oh, it's been my pleasure, Teri.
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