174. Teams in Transition with Henrik Bresman

Join Teri Schmidt on the Strong Leader Serve podcast as she engages in a captivating conversation with Henrik Bresman, a renowned professor and leadership expert. In this thought-provoking episode, Henrik shares insights into the evolving dynamics of team leadership in an ever-changing world. Discover how the concept of X Teams, which emphasizes the balance between internal cohesion and external engagement, is reshaping how teams operate and excel. As Henrik delves into the principles of sense making, ambassadorship, and task coordination, listeners will gain valuable strategies to foster strong, adaptable, and high-performing teams rooted in psychological safety and diversity.

• Balancing Internal and External Focus: Leaders must balance fostering strong internal team dynamics while encouraging external engagement to ensure adaptability and high performance.

• The Importance of Psychological Safety: Creating an environment of psychological safety is crucial for diverse teams to effectively communicate, collaborate, and innovate.

• Evolving Team Structures: As boundaries become more fluid and teams embrace remote and hybrid setups, clarity in roles and norms becomes vital for maintaining cohesion and direction.

• Leadership Signature Awareness: Leaders are encouraged to understand and articulate their unique leadership styles and capacities, fostering trust and stability within their teams.

• Diversity and Performance: Embracing diversity in teams is essential for achieving breakthrough performance, but it must be coupled with psychological safety to harness its full potential.

Resources:

• X-Teams: How to build teams that lead, innovate, and succeed

• X360 and XChange simulation

• Professor Bresman's LinkedIn

• Harvard Business Review article with Amy Edmonson: To Excel, Diverse Teams Need Psychological Safety

• Sloan Management Review Article with Debra Ancona: Turn Your Teams Inside Out

About Henrik:

Henrik Bresman is a professor of organizational behavior at INSEAD and a recognized expert on leadership, high-performance teams, and organizational change. He regularly works with companies and public-sector organizations embarking on large-scale transformations. His research has appeared in leading academic and practice journals, such as the Academy of Management Journal, Harvard Business Review, and the Economist. He co-authored the top-selling book “X-Teams: How to Build Teams that Lead, Innovate, and Succeed” (published by Harvard Business Review Press, 2023), which shows how teams at all levels can take on strategic leadership roles. Professor Bresman received his PhD from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Before entering academia, Professor Bresman served in several roles as a manager, consultant, and entrepreneur.

Transcript

While it's not perfect, we offer this transcription by Castmagic for those who prefer to read or who are hearing impaired.

Teri Schmidt [00:00:00]:

Welcome to the Strong Leader Serve podcast, Henrik. It's so nice to have you here, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation.

Henrik Bresman [00:00:07]:

It is my pleasure.

Teri Schmidt [00:00:08]:

You know, I'd love to start off with what was the moment or experience that first inspired you to study how teens operate and operate successfully?

Henrik Bresman [00:00:18]:

Well, I would say it, it was actually a number of moments. Very early on, my first job after college was in a large multinational, complex engineering company. And one reason why I joined that company was because of a very charismatic CEO who who inspired me. And and, I joined this company, and and pretty soon, I recognized that even for that charismatic CEO, very little of the most important leadership was actually exercised through big speeches in front of thousands of of people, but rather it was in those small moments in the team, in the top team, but also in teams throughout the the organization. And and this that this insight that that team is really the fundamental unit of of leadership that then was reinforced when I then moved on. I I realized that live working in one of these huge organizations wasn't actually for me. So I moved on to the startup world, and and then I saw the same thing there that I I saw that whether startups succeeded or failed, most typically, it was not because their their ideas weren't great ideas if they failed. In fact, most of the time, their ideas were were absolutely fantastic ideas.

Henrik Bresman [00:01:39]:

It all failed because things fell through at the implementation stage, and that was all because of the team. And so I got really intrigued by this. And after a bruising experience in the startup world, I decided that having a real job was too dangerous, and I I went back to grad school and became a a professor. That was a notion that I came in with. And so from the get go, this intersection between leadership and teams was something that was very much on my mind.

Teri Schmidt [00:02:06]:

Yeah. And it's fascinating how that has changed, I'm sure, through the time that you've been studying and researching and writing about teams. I'm I'm curious, what are some of the biggest changes that you have seen in your time?

Henrik Bresman [00:02:21]:

So the the biggest change by far is the importance for teams to be connected with the with the outside. So what has happened in the in the couple of decades since since I started well, it's actually more than a couple of decades, but who's counting? Since I started to think about my PhD is that the external world has has changed. The importance of the team hasn't changed, but the context in which the in which teams operate has changed in a number of fundamental ways. Why? Well, because the world is changing faster and and faster. I like to to, talk about the world being in in exponential change, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity, diversity, and, increasingly, it's also a very asynchronous world, and it's all changing at a furious rate. And and this then has resulted in a a number of of specific changes for for teams, which is that the the knowledge structures in which teams operate have have changed so that the knowledge that teams need is just constantly changing. And that has implications for our teams need to work with the outside world. Work structures have changed so that the the interdependencies in organizations and ecosystems are are just far greater, and, teams need to really understand and get feedback from and work with these these interdependencies.

Henrik Bresman [00:03:57]:

And then and then finally, power structures have changed. The the traditional hierarchies are not what they used to be. It used to be relatively easy to know where the power lies, where authority lies. And now it it is often far more subtle. More work is done through informal authority rather than their formal authority. So all these changes have had implications for how Teams work. But before I launch into the, the implications of the changes, I I I thought I should stop there.

Teri Schmidt [00:04:30]:

Yeah. No. It I definitely see that. And I and I know, you know, this is this updated edition of X Teams that you've recently put out in 2023. And I'm curious. There may be some people out there that haven't been exposed to the concept of X Teams even though the first edition was out a little while ago. I'm curious. Yeah.

Teri Schmidt [00:04:52]:

As you as you think about these changes and you think about the concept of X Teams, how can you explain that through a moment where you've seen the concept of X Teams really working.

Henrik Bresman [00:05:06]:

I think here I will piggyback on a study that was led by my coauthor of the book, Deborah Ancona, who I know you will talk to later on in this series. She led this study in the telecommunications industry where she pursued this standard question of what what explains team performance in in this industry? And she looked specifically at sales teams in that, industry. And she tested the the the what I would like to call a traditional model, which is the model that focuses on on alignment of goals and roles and processes and interpersonal, relationships, which are absolutely critical for, high performance in teams. So she looked she looked at these, variables, and then she, wanted to know what is most important. And and she found that these variables, they did predict a few things. It predicted how teams thought they performed, so subjective performance, and it predicted how satisfied teams were, at least in the short term, but it didn't predict objective performance at all, which in this case was inarguable about sales attainment. And that was really a a critical insight and to start to look at why is it that this traditional model doesn't explain performance and and what does explain performance. And what she found, and then I've I've built on on this work together with Deborah and also in my own work, is that the reason why these teams' performance wasn't explained by the internal activities was because that's just part of the story.

Henrik Bresman [00:06:47]:

In a exponentially changing world, you also need to add the the external part of the story. And that was a a real that was sort of the the springboard to to start to look at what is it that teams do externally to perform well in this fast changing environment.

Teri Schmidt [00:07:04]:

Yeah. And that external performance that they need to do, I know is is part of the principles that you put forth in the book. I wonder if you might just go through them briefly for those who aren't familiar.

Henrik Bresman [00:07:16]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. So so first part is of the book is to explain why the traditional model doesn't Mhmm. Doesn't work, which is that they're too internally focused. Now the second part is ex exactly this, what is it then that high performing teams do when they engage with the external? We're connecting to these three structures that have changed. First, what they do is that they engage in sense making, constantly going out there to make make sense of the world, draw and redraw their maps, figuring out what what what is the latest from the customers, what is the latest from the competitors, the latest technologies that we need to be be aware of.

Henrik Bresman [00:07:55]:

So that's that's number one and really learning from what's going on out there. Not number two is what we call ambassadorship. That is, about connecting to the power structures, figuring out where where is where are the resources? How can we represent the team? How how can we get on the strategic frequency of the the people, the the powerful stakeholders we need to have on, on board? So that's number two. And number three is what we call task coordination. That is connecting with the the, the work structures, the in interdependencies. A lot of teams, they fail because they step on other teams' toes without knowing it because they are not aware of of these interdependencies. So the those are the three things that we found fundamentally that teams engaged in. Now importantly, we we found across very different kinds of teams that this is what they did.

Henrik Bresman [00:08:47]:

Now what it actually means will be very different. So for example, if you ambassadorship means one thing when you are, say, a product development team at Microsoft, well, then it is about having the ear of Satya Nadella and his team. But if you are a a startup team, what is it then? Well, it's making sure that you are in in step with with whoever is funding your your company. So in one case, it's activity within the organization. In another case, it's activity across the company boundary, but it is still ambassadorship. But the true seems true for the other activities too. So I sometimes, I find it important to to emphasize this, that the implementation will be really different depending on where where you are, but we did find this pattern of the importance of these three fundamental activities across teams. Product development, We found it in government, in nonprofit organizations, in startup organizations, in consulting firms.

Henrik Bresman [00:09:54]:

So so that that is something that that came out very strongly as the the other side of the story. Story is one side, the external side is the other, and that is about sense making, ambassadorship, and task coordination.

Teri Schmidt [00:10:09]:

Yeah. I love I'm glad that you pointed that out, that it does differ across you know, depending on where you are seated, but it is about those external activities. One thing that I was thinking about, external activities. One thing that I was thinking about, particularly as you were talking about how it could change, but it the the principle is the same. I'm curious because I know you highlighted in the new edition that teams are facing shifts both, you know, from being really having really clear boundaries, like this is your team and this is gonna be your team for a while to more fuzzy boundaries. And also the the physical proximity. We're looking at remote. We're looking at hybrid.

Teri Schmidt [00:10:48]:

I'm particularly interested a little bit in in how those three acts change as well with those changes. But also my interest is in how leaders can create a sense of connection. So maybe more internally focused, so on the internal side. And then I'm curious about the balance between internal, external connection and belonging in the midst of all this change and how that relates.

Henrik Bresman [00:11:21]:

Oh, god. There's so much there that is so important questions. So let me let me start to unpack it, and and then you'll you'll tell me what I what I missed. Absolutely critical is to to change what you do over time. And so that I'm so glad you asked that question because when you go out, you also need to go in Mhmm. And process what what so, generally, we are talking about three phases that teams go through. We start with exploration. That's when you go out there and really figuring out what the what the well looks like.

Henrik Bresman [00:12:00]:

We often talk about how it's important for teams to go out before they go in. They need to have a clear sense of the territory before they get started. But then they need to get to get to work and and use that knowledge and and come up with with a plan forward. And this is the phase that we that we call execution and experimentation. It is more than execution because very often, it means learning as you execute, and you do that through experimenting with the knowledge that you that you bring into the team. And then the final part is what we call exportation. You will notice there's a lot of x's here. We we Right.

Henrik Bresman [00:12:37]:

This alliteration. So here it's, exploration, execution, and ex the experimentation and then exportation. That's when you go out there and really educate people in what you are doing and and why they should care. Now it is not as sequential as it sounds. You go in and out along along the way here. Now and, and and doing this. And here, now I'm getting into the the belonging part. And here, I I'll I'll start out, and then I'll let you ask a follow-up question because it's actually quite complex.

Henrik Bresman [00:13:09]:

So that's that's the theory. You need to engage in this external activities, and you need to do it over time. And it is the practice. A a lot of teams are doing this. But then you ask themselves, you the question that that prompt is, of course, well, why don't all teams do this? Because if you go to teams and say, hey. You you you need to go out and do thing outside, they they might say, well, oh, we kind of do that. We we go out and ask for help when we need it, or or we go out and and show our stuff when when when it's done. And and so, therefore, I wanna wanna add a couple of things here, which first, is that if if you go out or to ask for help when you need it, that is probably too late.

Henrik Bresman [00:13:54]:

The idea here is that you need to go out before you you should get started so you know what's going on out there. But it is more complicated than that. We find that very often the reason why teams don't do this, even though they might know that they need to, they don't do it. And often for subconscious reasons, because it is disruptive to the internal cohesion. I mean, to go out there and ask customer what they really what they really think, I think the the response can be kind of punishing. And you're a a junior. And so so it's it's it's the the the challenge of interacting with the external party, but then it's also the fact that when you're out there, then you're not with the team. And then you might come back with information that is ambiguous, and it might contradict something that the that the team leader, has said, well, then you need to bring it into the conversation.

Henrik Bresman [00:14:49]:

And and and so very often, teams, they close off. They don't do this because it does preserve harmony in the short run. Remember what I said about the telecom study, this wonderful study that Deborah led. It actually the traditional closed off model does, actually predict satisfaction and harmony in in the short run. And and that's why a lot of teams, close off. And so I'll I'll I'll stop there, but it it there is there is a contradiction, and that's sort of what I hear implied in your question that going out there is not it's easy to say, but difficult to do. And and then and now we can get to what what can teams team leaders do to, to, try to preserve the the inner harmony while being able to go outside. It kind of paradox the leadership.

Teri Schmidt [00:15:40]:

Yeah. Yeah. I I appreciate in the book, I know you talk about pulsing, like going back and forth between internal and external. I think what I'm coming from is, you know, personally, I've been a part of a team that was probably a little bit too internal focused and had a great sense of belonging, great sense of connection, knew we were a team, knew who was on the team. Mhmm. And then I've also been part of a team where we are on multiple different project teams, and it wasn't really clear who who the team was, what the identity was. And my thinking is if you don't have the internal identity, it almost makes it tough to go external and realize the benefits that you're talking about. So I'm curious if you particularly in these times where they are fuzzy boundaries and they are remote and hybrid, how you've seen leaders deal with that and still create that sense of connection.

Teri Schmidt [00:16:34]:

So it was strong enough to go external.

Henrik Bresman [00:16:36]:

So a couple of of things. One, perhaps paradoxically, leaders who do that well in in a way, they they become more heavy handed in the sense that they are exceedingly clear on the norms, on the goals, on the roles. It isn't paradoxical because to be able to confidently engage in this kind of boundary spanning, team members do need to know exactly what is expected and what they're authorized to do and what they are not authorized to do. That's that's number one. Clarity, and and this is why I really emphasize that when I talk about the importance of going out, it's not at the expense of of the internal dynamics. If anything, I mean, more important because it's becoming more challenging for the reasons that you that you mentioned. So that's number one. Number number two would be that it is important to emphasize the identity of of the team.

Henrik Bresman [00:17:39]:

There is a tension because if you, if you emphasize that too much, you could create in group, out group dynamic, which is not helpful when you go out. So the, the art is to emphasize and deemphasize as you go along, as you pulse, as you pick up on on this language we use. So that that's one one thing. That's the second thing. The third thing that I that I think is really important is is the critical role of the team leader to create for everyone, actually. It's everyone's role to create psychological safety. The the the the felt permission among team members that it's okay to be candid about when you agree, when you agree, when you disagree, when you don't know, when your questions, when you messed up, when you feel anxious about something, and then process this this as a team. So those those are those are three things that that comes to mind in response to the request.

Teri Schmidt [00:18:39]:

And I I appreciate that you put that, you know, having the identity and the norms and the roles and the goals clearly defined even before psychological safety because I, in my experience, it's really hard to create psychological safety. If you don't have that sense of identity, that sense of belonging to start off with.

Henrik Bresman [00:19:00]:

Yes. I've done some research with Mary Selmer Brun, who's a professor at in Minnesota, suggesting that clarity around goals and roles and, processes and all the clarity is around structure is really critical for for psychological safety. And then, of course, there's a dynamic, but that that's it's very hard to even start to create psychological safety if people don't know the the expectations that they that they and and and, you know, who's in which role and and so on, which, of course, is another thing that is easy to say and difficult to do in this dynamic environment that that you describe because roles might change over time. And then to be, explicit, about Yeah.

Teri Schmidt [00:19:45]:

But but knowing that that being explicit is is a prerequisite almost to effectively being able to have a psychologically safe team that can go externally effectively and get the results that you talk about. I think leaders having that in mind, at least, is the first step.

Henrik Bresman [00:20:06]:

Yes. And and and I this gets to another thing that very much has came come up as we've moved into this, this more virtual world. A lot of leaders who are successfully leading virtual teams, they they often start their their meetings with just reiterating that, here, this is what we're doing. This is our roles. Something that might seem a bit odd if it's in a physical environment, but it it's it's important when people sit in different parts of the world, the different time zones, working on different projects, as you said, to to just bring people back in, continuously emphasize and working and centering people around the goal and and and the purpose of of, like, the team. Very helpful.

Teri Schmidt [00:20:49]:

I I love that. And I I when you first said leaders have to be kinda heavy handed, at at first, I wasn't sure where you were gonna go there. But in my mind, what you're speaking to, having that sense of intention and, you know, and and a little sidebar, I I think there are a lot of companies who are thinking now, well, we just need to bring everyone back together and that, you know I think you talk about decontextualized socialization that we're we're going through now, and and they're trying to, you know, bring people together so we don't have that challenge anymore. But without that in that same intention of getting people on the same page in terms of goals and roles, physical proximity in my mind is is not going to have the impact that it's purported to have.

Henrik Bresman [00:21:40]:

It it's a really important question. Here, the jury is still out, in terms of do this. I it may be that you referred to a paper I wrote with Deborah and another colleague of mine, Mark Mortensen, is a professor at NCI, and he's doing some fascinating work here, look looking at why you would or would not wanna have people physically in the office. And he points out, he he he's come up with something of a contingency model where he looks at, well, it depends on what it is that you're trying to to achieve. If it's all about just getting the task done, well, then it's simply well, what? When do you need people to be together to be most most effective, and when is it more effective that they are at home? Now they save time. They can focus. They're not interrupted. And that's where most conversations tend to be.

Henrik Bresman [00:22:34]:

So I met a lot of of thoughtful leaders who really hone they hone it down to this that that they say, well, you know, the the stuff you can do independently, you can do at home, but then the this is the work that, you need to collaborate to get done. Then you are at work. It's not that easy because it's also the cultural dimension as as Mark points out. And it does whether you know it or not, whether you like it or not, whether you do it on purpose or not, it will change the culture. If people are at home more than in in the office, they spend more time with their family, but that helps the the context. Yeah. I'm I'm not saying, you know, I'm I'm not valuing this. I'm just saying that that that's what it is, and you need to be mindful of of that.

Henrik Bresman [00:23:21]:

It's it's a and and here, as I said, research, a lot of exciting research, done now, and there there are really I can't give you any answers of how exactly to balance this, partly because research is ongoing, sort of new project. Like, partly because it depends so much on the context of your particular team.

Teri Schmidt [00:23:41]:

I'm curious because I I know you look at diversity too. You know, as teams become more diverse, how in this model, how can they capitalize on that diversity?

Henrik Bresman [00:23:55]:

Yeah. It so it it is implied, of course, in this idea of of x teams that you you bring a lot of diverse information and and diverse people into the team. And and to be able to deal with that diversity, you need to have internal diversity that sort of matches the, external, diversity. And so how do you deal with that diversity? I'm now working quite a bit, on this, but let me let me share one study I did. I I wrote an article with Amy Edmondson, who is the person I would say in arguably most associated with this idea of psychological safety. And what we found in that study intrigued us, which was that we we looked at a number of teams. This was in the pharmaceutical industry, and we looked at diversity specifically. And and we found that on average, diverse teams did a little bit worse than our genius teams.

Henrik Bresman [00:25:03]:

Now this is is a is a surprise to many. When I go out, I do keynotes and I often, before I reveal this result, I said, well, what do you think? Diverse or homogeneous teams? Where on average, which one does better at between 80 and a %, says, well, the diverse, of course, because that's what what they've heard, and maybe that's also their ex experience. And so when they they see this results, they they are very concerned. Am I saying that diversity is not good? No. That's not what I'm saying saying at all. In fact, I I always rush to say, no. Wait. First, I need to say that don't now take this result and think to yourself you're gonna go back and fire everyone on your team and hire a bunch of people just like you.

Henrik Bresman [00:25:49]:

Because then I I what I usually do when I talk about this, I show the detailed data, and what you see is that every single one of the high performing teams are are diverse. So then the question, becomes, what is it that what is what what is it that that, is these teams do? These teams that are diverse and perform best rather well, so I I should say, why is it that, sometimes diversity can pull down the average performance? Well, it it is because diversity comes with, challenges communicating and coordinating and translating across cross differences. And, therefore, there are some failures where where teams are not able to to walk across these these these fault lines. And so so what do these teams do that that do best with diversity? Well, it goes back to to psychological say to create that. So if if you look at teams that has an above average level of psychological safety, well, then you do have that, you do have that positive relationship between diversity and performance. So people who say, well, I think it's a diverse team. Their intuition is absolutely right. It's absolutely correct.

Henrik Bresman [00:27:06]:

What I'm saying is that it may not it it it is actually necessary to have diversity for for breakthrough performance, but it may not be sufficient. You also need a psychological safety for people to, actually share their diverse opinions, experiences, and perspectives to get to that to to really capture the magic of diverse teams and get to that higher higher performance. So let let me summarize that. I feel I was a I I slipped into professor mode there. I started to profess. Here's why I want people to take ways. It it is necessary to have diversity, to get to a high level of performance, but bringing a group of diverse people together is not enough. You also need psychological safety to to realize the tension.

Henrik Bresman [00:27:55]:

One more thing, because I know you're you're you're interested in issues of of of mental health and well-being as well. Not only did these teams that have psychological safety at a at a higher level, not only did they perform better, they did better. They felt better too. So both instrumental outcomes and mental health outcomes were better for these teams that were diverse and had, a certain level of psychological safety.

Teri Schmidt [00:28:23]:

No. That that's great. It it goes along with what I know you talk about, wealth and well-being, having those two pieces in place. And it makes sense too. And and I could see how if you do have a more diverse team, it you have to be even more intentional about the actions you take around creating that psychological safety.

Henrik Bresman [00:28:42]:

Yes. Yes. And and then and then, of course, the million dollar question is, how do you build that psychological safety? I don't know if there's room for that in this this episode. But since I asked the question, let me just give sort of few tips. May maybe some of your listeners have not really wrestled with this. So, the simple three process would be to start out by setting the stage and have a good conversation. What what do you expect in terms of uncertainty? What do you know? What you don't know? And and relatedly, you know, what what do you expect in terms of of failure rates? Because if if some people in the team, assume that, no. We should know everything and we shouldn't fail, then you can't even start to have psychological safety because no one will talk about their their failures and their the things that they are certain about.

Henrik Bresman [00:29:30]:

And then the second step is then to invite participation. This is really where inclusive leadership comes in. And and as a leader, it is important to really invite people in and and say, well, I need to hear from you, Terry. I you're out there. You see things that I don't. And and particularly in a virtual environment, this is really important. And and when you do that, it does two things. It it it lowers the psychological cost of speaking up, and it also, perhaps less, obviously, it it raises psychological, cost of being silent.

Henrik Bresman [00:30:03]:

Because if I look at you here on the screen and say, Terry, I need to hear from you. It would be odd if you sat there with the screen off and didn't say anything. You probably would feel that you did this. That's that's, number two. And then finally, you need to you you need to then respond productively to to what then comes in response. Easy if everything that people says is pure gold, but sometimes, you know, people say dumb stuff. And and if you say, well, that's dumb, well, then you, of course, you will help psychological safety right there. So it's important then to to be able to separate, you know, appreciation for the courage it takes to speak up, and then a conversation about the value of the conversation.

Henrik Bresman [00:30:44]:

So set the stage, invite invite participation, and then respond in a productive way. That's a starting point. That's another I'm in the business of ease, it's saying difficult to do, and that's that's great to do.

Teri Schmidt [00:30:56]:

I think that's the whole world of people leadership, so I don't think you're alone there. But thank you for sharing those because those those are tips that I I hadn't heard before about, you know, saying upfront what we expect the failure rate to be. That's that's a new one that I could definitely see how that would

Henrik Bresman [00:31:13]:

I know. I need to get credit here. I, like, I I worked a lot with Amy, and and I think many of your thoughts I should credit her for us. Yeah. For me. Yeah. Definitely.

Teri Schmidt [00:31:24]:

Well, you know, I as I mentioned, our listeners are really what I call compassionate driven leaders. Kinda goes along, like we talked about before we started recording with your wealth and well-being. I'm curious if you had one piece of advice to give them to survive in this ever changing world and and hopefully thrive, what would it be?

Henrik Bresman [00:31:47]:

Yes. One thing.

Teri Schmidt [00:31:50]:

Just one.

Henrik Bresman [00:31:51]:

One thing. So it it would be it would be this. Know your leadership signature. We actually write about in in the book. What do we mean by that? The idea is that just as every one of us, we have our hand signature that is unique. Every one of us have our unique way of leading, and that is our leadership signature. And it's absolutely critical as a starting point to know who you are, who you are not, what are your strengths, what are what are your limitations. Often, there's a discrepancy between your intention and and and who you actually are and come across as a leader.

Henrik Bresman [00:32:35]:

It's absolutely critical to to know this. Because if you know this, you you can come up with a plan for how to develop in a direction that that you would like to develop. Also importantly, and here's the where the compassion comes in with your team member, you can communicate this to, others in your team, and that turns out to be absolutely critical in this fast moving environment that is so that generates so much anxiety that that team members are can be sure that they know that you know who you are and who you are not. So they have a stability in their relationship with you, and that contains anxiety. And that's sort of the the the portal to to all the other things that go into to compassion. Then you can then you can be authentically compassionate if you're on the same page as as your team about who who you are, as a leader. Does that make sense?

Teri Schmidt [00:33:40]:

Makes a lot of sense, and it aligns right with, our leadership development model and strong leaders serve as ground, grow, give, and that ground phase is could be rephrased as knowing your leadership Yep. Signature.

Henrik Bresman [00:33:53]:

Yep.

Teri Schmidt [00:33:53]:

And and the stability piece, we've talked about that a lot, how that helps team members to have trust, have to deal with changes when they're going around, that they know that they can come back to that core. And in the spirit of X Teams too, as you're going out and going in and and pulsing between the two, knowing that you have that stable core

Henrik Bresman [00:34:13]:

Right.

Teri Schmidt [00:34:13]:

In your leader that is going to be there and you know how they are going to act in different situations. I can see that being immensely powerful.

Henrik Bresman [00:34:24]:

Well Yes. Melody. Yeah. That's a really important word. Thank you for putting that in there. That's very, very important.

Teri Schmidt [00:34:32]:

Thank you for that.

Henrik Bresman [00:34:34]:

Stability in the world. It's it's a challenge, but starting to work more in who you are in this world.

Teri Schmidt [00:34:40]:

Right. Another easier said than done, but definitely worth doing.

Henrik Bresman [00:34:45]:

Thanks.

Teri Schmidt [00:34:46]:

Well, I I know speaking of your leadership signature, I know you also have a a simulation exercise and and a feedback instrument that also go along with the book. So and we didn't get to dig into hardly any of the book. So I definitely encourage everyone to get the book, check that out, as well as check out the additional tools that you have available.

Henrik Bresman [00:35:09]:

Yes. Yeah. Let's let me put in a plug for that. We're actually brought quite proud of it. When it comes to leadership signature, we have developed a three sixty instrument that can help you discover your leadership signature. And with strong emphasis on this fast moving context and your ability to engage in in sense making as an individual leader, but also as a team member, the team, team leader. And then the the, the simulation called xChange where we put teams in a in a very challenging environment to to try to work as the next team and and then focusing on the learning then in a safe psychologically safe environment rather than the performance. We we we love that simulation.

Henrik Bresman [00:35:50]:

We hope that, that you do too, listener, if you, if you were Right. Try and and the way you, like, you find resources, for those instruments is that you go to xlead.o, and then you find all the information, about

Teri Schmidt [00:36:08]:

Knowing what what is in the book, I haven't had the chance to explore the other two, but knowing the checklist and the research, it it's a really nice balance of, you know, deep research and practicality and case studies. And so I can imagine how beneficial the the other tools are. So we'll definitely make sure that gets linked in the show notes. If people are interested in learning more even more about your work, where is the best place for them to go?

Henrik Bresman [00:36:35]:

Well, given that the book is reasonably fresh, I I'd say, that. And then there are a couple of, of the one that I mentioned with Amy in the Harvard Business Review, which just Google on my name. I'll be easy to find. And then there is a Sloan Management Review article where I and Deborah, expand on the x Teams concept. And then we also have a we have a newsletter called X News on LinkedIn. So if you if you send an invite to to me and just mention that you've listened to this show, then I will certainly I will accept your your invite, and then you will get access to the, newsletter.

Teri Schmidt [00:37:16]:

Well, those are those are great resources, and we'll make sure they get links so they're easy to find for everyone. But thank you again for your time today. And I know it's morning for you and evening for me, but it's it's been just a very energizing conversation. And thank you for the work that you do to make our workplaces more well and more wealthy as well.

Henrik Bresman [00:37:40]:

Well, thank you. I cannot think of a better way to to start today here. So thank you very much. It really is my my pleasure.