Business ethics is one of the most important, yet least talked about elements of leadership.
That's one reason we're kicking of our series highlighting female changemakers with Dr. Bev Kracher.
Dr. Bev holds the Robert B. Daugherty Endowed Chair in Business Ethics & Society in the Heider College at Creighton University and is the Founder of the Business Ethics Alliance whose purpose is to promote an environment in Omaha where the discussion and practice of business ethics is encouraged and expected.
Dr. Kracher has dedicated her career to promoting ethical leadership and empowering female leaders. In this insightful episode, she shares her wisdom on leadership, confidence, and navigating ethical dilemmas.
Resources:
About Dr. Bev:
Beverly Kracher, Ph.D. holds the Robert B. Daugherty Endowed Chair in Business Ethics & Society in the Heider College at Creighton University. She loves thinking, reading, teaching, and talking about business ethics. She is the Founder of the Business Ethics Alliance whose purpose is to promote an environment in Omaha where the discussion and practice of business ethics is encouraged and expected. Bev has created many practical business ethics products and has been a keynote or presenter for hundreds of business ethics workshops and sessions. She currently serves on several for-profit and non-profit boards as well as health-care ethics committees. A native Nebraskan and farmers daughter, Bev has deep roots in the state, reinforced by the fact that she is an Admiral in the Great Navy of the State of Nebraska.
Transcript
While it's not perfect, we offer this transcription by Castmagic for those who prefer to read or who are hearing impaired.
Teri Schmidt:
Hi, Bev. Welcome to the Strong Leaders Serve podcast. I'm excited to have you here and look forward to our conversation.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Hi, Teri. I'm very happy to be here today.
Teri Schmidt:
Well, excellent. Well, I'd love to start with all my guests just getting to know you a bit, and particularly some of those pivotal points in your journey to where you are today and how you lead today.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Thank you for that. So I'm a native Nebraska and a farmer's daughter. I'm a first generation college kid. I'm a very strong feminist. I got a PhD in philosophy, with a doing a dissertation on ethics. And, I've had a career in business ethics Education at Creighton University, which is a Jesuit Catholic university, liberal arts, here in Omaha. And, I'm the founder of the Business Ethics Alliance, and so that's kind of a brief overview from beginning to where I am now.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Although I have stepped aside from the business ethics alliance, and it's somebody else's turn, somebody else's leading that ship. But, you know, when you I think about that question, could I also be a little playful and say, I think the most important thing is that anybody might wanna know about me other than that. So number 1, I think I came out of my mom's womb screaming fairness. Must be the case. This ethics thing is just Hardwired into me. I've been a feminist since I was in high school, and now that's about 50 years. Where the heck does time go? And have there been great changes in those 50 years? I'm sad to say no. Anyway, number 3, I also think that humor is essential to a good life.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And you've probably seen that Oscar Wilde saying that says that life is too important to take seriously, and I think that's the case. And I I don't know why I rail against tradition and rituals and authority. Unless I'm the authority, then I think it's all really cool and great.
Teri Schmidt:
I think there might be a little bit of that in all of us. But
Dr. Bev Kracher:
I hope so. Well, then, I love to travel. I traveled quite a bit. Not as much as I wanted to, but I'm gonna be doing more. I think travel makes us better global citizens, and, that Plays into any kind of advice I'd give to anybody about, you know, how to live a better life and how to be a better leader. Travel, travel,
Teri Schmidt:
You have me curious now. Do you have a favorite place to travel to or a favorite travel experience?
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Oh, man. But favorite place to travel to is where I haven't been already, and there's been a lot of those. Okay. So I just I just love, the exploration, I love being in different places. I love it being a cultural experience as well as a geographical experience. Favorite places. Oh my god. 1, I guess, would be I was in the Himalayas in Nepal, and I did a trek in the Annapurna.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And I can clearly remember looking out from the top of 1 of the mountains and just seeing the beauty of all of it. And then later on in that day, sitting down, in a mountain range and listening to the monkeys, that you could hear, call each other from different parts on the mountain range, and that was incredibly beautiful. So that's 1. You got me start. I'm gonna stop here.
Teri Schmidt:
I will ask 1 more question because it's burning in my mind. But do you have tips for someone who, you know, is traveling somewhere that they've never been before To a culture that they're not familiar with, for really getting the most out of that experience from a cultural perspective.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Don't be afraid to go into places and actually being uncomfortable is, is wonderful. I remember I was in China, and I I was alone. I travel alone quite a bit. And, I was sitting on the side Out of my bed crying 1 night because I couldn't communicate with anybody. And and there's something really good about people like us who want to be in control, to be out of control. And so put yourself in a situation where you're out of control, and that will be a better experience for you. And the last thing is get away from the tourist places. I've only been to an all inclusive once in my life.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Mhmm. When you're in those places, you are not in the local community. So book a place which is outside of an all inclusive and get into the community in terms of the restaurants and the streets and just walk around, and you will have a better cultural experience.
Teri Schmidt:
Yeah. That that makes a lot of sense. And and I'm guessing that humility and curiosity are important too in terms of having that cultural experience.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
You are right on target, and I know that people can feel if you come into, their lives with that sense of humility and wanting to learn as opposed to, you know, being a know it all and bringing, like, oh, the culture should be like mine. Right? Oh, you're right. And people can feel that. So good good good point.
Teri Schmidt:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, excellent. Well, we'll we'll stop the travel podcast, Thank you for sharing your experiences. I'm fascinated by them, if you can't tell. So speaking of experiences, I'm curious since you have had several leadership experiences. You know, do you have 1 or 2 favorites? I'd love to hear the story behind them and what makes them your favorite.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Oh, I'm okay. Well, One of them, I guess, I'll go back to when I started working at Creighton University. I was starting my position, and I was an assistant professor. And I not only like to teach business ethics to undergraduates and graduates, but I also like to do extracurricular things. And so, I've always had a love for the environment. I'm a, you know, I'm a farmer's daughter, and so I I have a sense of stewardship for the land and for the world. And so I looked around what was happening at Creighton, and this was 25 years ago. I probably about that.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And recycling was not a thing like it, and so Creighton didn't have any kind of recycling claim program at all. And so I got it, the bee in my bonnet that, by gosh, we were gonna make that happen. And so I took A leadership role in that. I, collaborated with people across the campus. We got a team of about 5 People, all the way from students to staff to faculty and administrators, and we push the envelope in order to, you know, get A program going. We walked the campus, to see where there needed to be bins, etcetera. And and, we did create the 1st, I call it, pitiful recycling program, great university. Pitiful because it wasn't what we thought.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
We wanted it to be big and, like, everything. We wanted to compost and, you know, every single You can keep out of the landfill. We wanted to do that, but, you know, we were able to recycle paper and some plastics, Some places on campus and and in the process of doing that, though, I partnered with the environmental Services, they're the ones that they're the custodians of organization. And the the the people there did not have a good reputation with upper administration. In my and it's because they were always pushing the envelope too. And so I was told I got a phone call from 1 of the administrators while we were in the process of doing all this. Bev, you know, you're pretty new. You gotta be careful.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Should be the case that you can kind of back off on this and especially back off on a relationship with, you know, the people in this particular area. And so I I had I was so naive. I had no idea what to do Mhmm. With that kind of call. And I I think I explained, that, you know, we couldn't do this without them. They're important part of the puzzle. And so the person on the other side of the line said, Okay. I get your point, but I this is a call to say be careful.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Mhmm. And so I I I I took that to heart. I was a little scared, but, I just kinda knew that there was no other way to do what we were doing, and I just kept trodden down the path with, where my eyes wide open. I don't know. Yeah. But but we did create our pitiful little recycling program, Graham. And, eventually, that guy left. I I continued to do the work, and the program is better now.
Teri Schmidt:
What is it about that experience do you think that made that one in particular come to your mind?
Dr. Bev Kracher:
It was early in my career. Because back in the day, I was learning every single day about how to be a leader. And So that popped for me because it was such a great learning experience, and and I've got so many different pea people together in order to make that happen. I'd say that's why, and also because it's a passion of mine, and it's so so it still sticks in me in terms of who I am and what I wanted to do.
Teri Schmidt:
Yeah. Yeah. And I I think you hit on, you know, at least a few key leadership principles there. The fact that you were passionate about it and continue to be passionate about it. So that's kind of what drove you to be a leader in that situation, But also the building of a coalition. How did you know that you would need to do that?
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Because, Perhaps like many girls, I don't have a lot of I don't and I still don't. I have this confidence question, And so it's gotten better. Mhmm. I take a medication for it. I'm laughing about that that I haven't. But, you know, we we practice ways to overcome that Negative self talk. And so in that, there was a comfort to bring other people into a team in order to make things work. Yeah.
Teri Schmidt:
Right. Right. Which is is fascinating. We've done some other episodes about, You know, the skills that women as a whole, and, again, I'm generalizing here, but tend to have naturally maybe because They are you know, they have another, like you said, a confidence gap or issue or because of that, you wanted to bring the coalition together. But then also That coalition building happens to be one of the most important leadership skills there is, especially if you wanna be a change maker.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Oh, yeah. And having the right people, you know, that saying the right people on the bus in the right seat. Yeah. You can hear those phrases, but it's not until you're actually, you know, frontline and making things those that make a difference. But there was such a conflict, I have to say, because, You know, early on in my career, you know, I went to a country, high school. And in my high school, we were girls are trained in home ec and boys are trained in you know, I'm 66 years old. So, you know, it's a while ago. Mhmm.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
So girl I was trained to be get married, be a mother, and have 8 kids, and I'll live happily ever after. But on the other hand, my ambition, which I I I I love that word, and my desire for big impact was growing even as I was a kid, and it got more and more and more. And so when I think about this particular example I'm using with starting a recycle a recycling program for A pretty large organization Mhmm. That they didn't even see the need for it because at that time, it's like, you know, plastics are not a Commodity, they're just things that you throw away. We're in Nebraska, by the way. We we have a lot of land. You just create a big landfill. So that conflict between, you know, how I was raised and and that desire for big impact and ambition What's happening all the time?
Teri Schmidt:
Mhmm.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
So as you say, wanted like, I didn't know that it was a good strategy, but one of the ways to address that Conflict was to get people around me that were comfortable with, you know, moving into an arena that was open.
Teri Schmidt:
And even In that coalition building, having to work with the department that, you know, you had to be a little bit cautious with, I think is is a huge lesson and and another reason why this is such an great example of leadership.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And probably the biggest one for me, an example of leadership is, you know, starting and running the business ethics alliance. It was, I mean, that is a model that we created. There was nobody that was doing and still nobody is doing what we did, And so there wasn't a blueprint to follow. It was just this idea that, you know, a a community a business community Needs ethics education because the business people didn't have the tools, I found out as I was talking to them, And the skills to be able to handle the moral issues that were arising for them, the moral stress that was part of, you know, what was happening in their gut, The sense of isolation they had because they thought I'm the only one that really cares about this. Mhmm. So there was nobody that was doing anything like we were doing at the community level. And that was the that's the biggest leadership experience for me.
Teri Schmidt:
Yeah. Let let's dig into that a little bit. I'm curious. You know? Did you you mentioned that you came out of the womb shouting fairness, but, you know, did you As the idea was just forming in your mind for the business ethics alliance, you know, what what triggered that? How did that germinate and grow? I'd love to hear the story behind that.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Yeah. For just for the idea. I was at Creighton. I was teaching undergraduates and graduates. I was starting to do some consulting and being in the community. And and I I was growing towards working with business practitioners, which is what I really love. I do have a passion for that. And so I had the opportunity because of an interim dean to take some time to really develop Something for the business community.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Universities want to be inward facing, teaching their students, but they also need to be outward facing and delivering Product services to the communities. And so what Creighton do with regards to business ethics education? And so for the idea, it was it was like, I I I wanna do something, and and I can do it. And my interim dean is like, okay. You've been talking about this, so here's an opportunity. You get a course Release and a and a little bit of money and go. And so what it did was I I did that typical walking tour. What do people want? I walked around. I talked to people.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
I took notes. I said, you know, what's ethics mean to you? Where do you get any training with regards to ethics in your organization, at your associations? What could you see we could do with the community? Do you know anybody else I can talk to about this. I mean, those of us that have been through it, we know those are the tools. You listen and then you say, Who else can I talk to? So I did that for months months months. And in that process, I met some people that were also very passionate about what was happening at the time. This was, like, 2001. Little bit after that, Enron had just happened, and most people don't know started in Omaha, Nebraska. Yeah.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
It was a combination of 2 companies, Houston Natural Gas Gas, I think it's called, and, InterNorth out of Iowa. And they came here to form Enron in Omaha, and then Enron left and went down to Houston. Mhmm. We had a lot of people in Omaha that we're feeling the burn because that scandal happened about 2001. And they're going, oh, is this possible? Or, you know, our friends, etcetera. And so they were talking about it, and I was hitting the ground right at that time saying, what can we do with regards to some kind of programs, whatever, for, ethics, business ethics. And we had a number of different ideas That then I worked with a couple of people at that time, and we've sat, you know, every couple weeks and said, what could this look like? Could it be this 1? Could it be that 1? And, you know, we just kind of, by process of elimination, said, how about if we try this kind of Shane. And so we just threw that idea at the wall and checked to see if it would stick, and it did.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And that is what became the Business Ethics Alliance.
Teri Schmidt:
Wow. And I know you you mentioned that you stepped aside and, In fact, have recently been recognized for your role in founding and leading the business ethics alliance for so long and Have been inducted into the business hall of fame, which is amazing, so congrats on that. But I'd you know, I'd love to hear about some of the if you wanna go with success stories or some of the the changes that you saw come about As a result of people participating with the business ethics alliance.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
One of the reasons the alliance is most is one of the people that became part of the core group, was a champion from the business community. His name is Bob Bates, and he was an insurance guy, and everybody knew Bob. So after we had an initial program that was only with CEOs at the top of the highest building in Omaha. There aren't many. I mean, there's only, like, 14 Mhmm. Store. This particular man, Bob, came forward and because he asked a question, where what are you gonna do now? And so I went back to him and said, would you, you know, help with this? And he said, yes. I will.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
So because when you think about it, Bev Crocker, an academic and a female, coming to the the people that run the business Community in Omaha, which is heavily male, we are a male dominated community, and saying, hey. Let's do this. It it just wouldn't I wouldn't have even gotten into the rooms Mhmm. Without the cloud of somebody like Bob Bates. So what we did then and what I learned from Bob, and he then is my mentor and has been my mentor for years, as well as Other people, but he's primary. He and I talked about the fact that when you if you wanna have ethics, be part of an organization We're part of a community. You've gotta start at the top. Because once an idea floats from the top and goes down to be, run by somebody, like, even maybe even an executive VP or a director, you lose the the Prestige of that idea.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Mhmm. And and so with that in mind, making sure that the CEOs in Omaha We're part of this initiative, and and kid love felt like they we were serving them the most, which we were Mhmm. Because aside, they had the money. We wanted to make sure that was the case. So one of the things the alliance is now known for is we have more CEO engagement in Omaha around business ethics education than any place else in the country. I've been across the country, and there are places where you'll have 1 or 2 CEOs show up at a program. Mhmm. That is, an ethics education program for the community.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Here, we have a trustee meeting where you have 350 For profit, not for profit. You know, small, medium, and large come together in order to talk about business ethics. Mhmm. And From that then, that that isolation is broken and learning that other companies are interested in this kind of thing happens. And then also, it gets into the headset of those particular CEOs. As an example of that, I interviewed 1 CEO of a Fortune 500, and one of the things we're training on was blind spots. Ethical blind spots are their psychological dispositions that make good people do things that aren't necessarily the best and ethical for an organization. And so I was asking the CEO to share a story about something that he was aware had an ethical component to it.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
As a matter of fact, being able to identify when something has an ethical component is a big deal. It's really important to that. And so he had developed And ABILITY, part of it is because of his association with the alliance. There's no doubt about it. And so he told a story about he had hired a guy for executive VP that he knew pretty well, and he thought he was perfect for the job. But within a month or 2, somebody came to him and say, hey. You wanna think about this guy. Maybe he's not right.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And the CEO said, You know, I know him. He's fine. A couple months later this sounds like a joke. A couple months later, my boss came to him and said, Oh, hey. I something's going on here. You wanna think about this person? And the CEO said, no. No. No.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
I know him. He's fine. 3rd Time happened again. 4th time, it was somebody who really, really trusted and said, hey. You wanna, you know, look at this guy? And so he did after that 4th time, and he found out that there were problems with his leadership in terms of the team, other kind of unethical things that were Happening with regards to bullying, etcetera. And so, ultimately, the CEO said, oh, wrong person for the job and and let him go from the organization. Mhmm. Ask the CEO what he learned from, you know, that.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And we talked about the ethical blind spot that he had, which is overconfidence bias. He was all CEOs. He like, you know everything. Right?
Teri Schmidt:
Right. Right.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And he said that's how I felt. I knew he was the right person. Uh-huh. But of of my overconfidence made it the case that I wasn't listening soon enough. And but then what he did right was he did surround himself with good people Mhmm. Who comfortable coming to him. And so that is, you know, that's a tool that you can use when you find that you have that kind of over, having the right people around you who are willing to speak up to you. And, ultimately, he ended up being able to do the right thing.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
So that's a a tangential story that shows the individual business leaders Really, you know, the gut epic, so to speak. Like, people get milk or what have
Teri Schmidt:
you. Right.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Yeah. But, it got deeply into them, and they were able to be able to even name the blind spots that they had that all of us have. Nobody, you know, gets away from those. And then also recognize the tools to overcome them.
Teri Schmidt:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of tools, and and you mentioned one there, you're surrounding yourself with people who are comfortable coming to you. What are some other skills or tools that a leader needs in order to most effectively be an ethical leader?
Dr. Bev Kracher:
One thing I think everybody should know about is their ethical lens. And so there is a, online, it's called the ethics game, and it's started by doctor Katherine Baird. Mhmm. And you can take it's like, you know, Gallup has a Strength Finders? Mhmm. You can go online and within 5 minutes, you can find out what your ethical lens is. It costs up for, like, $30. It's called the ethic and the ethical lens inventory. And so the thing is We bring we data comes into each one of us.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
It's the same data, but we filter it in different ways. Mhmm. And it's important to know that everybody has a bit of a different lens, a different way of filtering what comes into us. There's something called the responsibility lens, Somebody who just, like, follow the rules, and there are like like, the 10 commandments, make sure you follow the rules ethically. And if you do that and have the right intentions, then you're good. Other people have a results lens. Make sure all the consequences are good for everybody. You care about the rules.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Just make sure the consequences are good. And somebody other people have a fairness lens. Guess what? That's mine. That's what
Teri Schmidt:
I was gonna say.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
All about process, and I'm all about making sure that things are Equitable and equal. And then there's an aspirational lens. Be the best that you can be. Be the best organization you can be. Be virtuous. Have a strong character. Work on that. Those are the 4 main lenses, and And you you need to know as a leader what your lens is and what other people's lenses are because You use your lens, like, if I use a fairness lens to try to persuade somebody who's aspirational and or results Lens, let's say.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
It doesn't necessarily care about fairness. I'm gonna be talking over their head. And so you have to know your lens and know other people's lenses in order to persuade them to do the right thing at work. When it comes to building a team, you wanna make sure that you have people from each of the lenses on your team because that means you'll ask all the right questions when you're that's a whole dilemma. That's one tool, and there are a couple others too that are important, but that is Foundational, knowing yourself Mhmm. Knowing the more ethical lens is foundational to being an ethical leader.
Teri Schmidt:
Yeah. Yeah. That's you know, we we start all of our leadership coaching, leadership development with we have, We call it the ground phase, but it's really about knowing yourself and haven't really included the ethical lens piece in there yet, But I think that is definitely something another just another piece of knowing yourself so that you can operate more actively when you are leading others and working with other leaders as well.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
It's a wonderful tool. And, yeah, It's that old, you know, platonic thing, know thyself. Also the case in terms of being an ethical leader, you know, you wanna know about the blind spots and you wanna be able to overcome those. And I could tell a story about 1 or 2 of those if you'd but the other is, you know, you're you're creating as a leader An environment for people to be in. And so it's not only about who you are and what you bring to the table, But what is the environment that people are in? You know, the culture. Right? So there are things called the ethics that you can use in order to create environments for people to be thinking about doing the right Thing, at the same time, they're thinking about profitability. I just give 1 or 2 example.
Teri Schmidt:
I was just gonna ask you.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Yeah. So, okay. So one is googly eyes. You've seen these things there. You can get them yeah. You know, they have they Take the eyes do and you can stick them on things. Uh-huh. So there is a study that showed that if you had that, You know, when we think people are watching us, it gets us out of what a blind spot called the myth of invisibility.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And so the people are watching you, then you will tend to do the right thing as opposed to the wrong thing. And so some environment, some people have fun with this, And they take those packages of googly eyes, and they stick them on refrigerators. They stick them on the copy machine. They stick them on like a, you know, the the Staplers, you know, that you don't want people to take home. And, you know, putting them on the refrigerator, if people have their lunches in their refrigerator, it would Stop people from from stealing lunches because it's like somebody else's. So that's a fun way, and there are studies that show It really to imagine how people are, like, getting, the academic credentials because they're doing googly eyes.
Teri Schmidt:
Googly eye research.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Another one which, we do it without recognizing it's an ethical nudge is this idea of putting posters and things around a room or an environment, that are inspirational.
Teri Schmidt:
Mhmm.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And there have been studies behind this as well. So, you know, you put up the people that inspire you ethically speaking. So might be Martin Luther King. Who else would you put up? People that you know in your industry that you aspire to be that seem to be doing it right. All of the whether they're politicians, whether they're business people, whether they're religious people, just having posters around on the walls with pictures of those people. We'll nudge people to be thinking about the right thing at the same time they're thinking about making a profit. Mhmm. And then I would never use, but some people have, and there's an experiment on on this as well.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
They have placed, like, teddy bears, around the environment in an organization and even in in the place where people go to commune and sit and have coffee, there'd be teddy bears sitting around and and stuffed animals, that you have as a kid. And the argument was that, when you think of yourself as a child, you think of yourself in terms of purity and, being the best. And somehow that then inspires you. Just having those around to be thinking about being more pure and doing what you're saying as you're making a profit. That's not my style, but but it might be somebody else's style. Yeah. Yeah.
Teri Schmidt:
That's no. It's fascinating how our behavior can be shaped and changed just by little nudges like that.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And I even love the word and what I would do as a leader, once you know this, talk to your team and say what would be good for our team in terms Think things around to remind us. And then, you know, change it up. Don't have the same thing for 8 years. That's boring.
Teri Schmidt:
Because then you don't see it anymore eventually.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Yep. Exactly right. Point well taken.
Teri Schmidt:
A lot of our listeners are newer leaders. They may be, you know, in their 1st or 2nd leadership position. If they want to make sure that they are getting off on the right foot as an ethical leader, what would your advice be for them?
Dr. Bev Kracher:
I would do the same thing I've done, which is find you know, it and this is about being a leader as well as being an ethical leader. Mhmm. Make The leader that you find and the people you find to be mentors for you have that thing. And, you know, we we recognize it immediately. You recognize said, I do. Everybody does. You're with somebody, and they're just decent.
Teri Schmidt:
Mhmm.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Mhmm. So Attach yourself to those people.
Teri Schmidt:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great great piece of advice. Like, you mentioned Your mentor, and I know I've had mentors that have made a tremendous impact on my life. I'm gonna take us back again to you mentioned you've been a feminist for, You know, quite a long time. And I'm I'm curious how that's impacted your professional journey and, you know, What skills you think it takes to be an effective female leader in today's Times. And and if you wanna talk about, you know, kind of the history too, please feel free.
Teri Schmidt:
But I guess same question. You know? If you're sitting across the table from a a newer leader Who is a female? What would your advice be to her?
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Yeah. Some of this is really tactile. And one I'll point with regards to being a a strong female leader, but take up space. There's there's literature on this too. Sit with your legs open. Have a space at the table. Do not put yourself, like, you know, in in a 5 inch Space where all the guys around you have a lot of space. Take up the space that the guys take because that makes a difference in terms of the perception of you.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Nowhere to sit at a table. This is tactile. You know, don't be afraid. Give up this fear thing of, like, people not liking you because you're going to, You know, maybe do something that they, find to be uncomfortable or is you're uncomfortable with. Find a place at the table that you think Has a power place and sit there. And if somebody, you know, catches you on it and says that's not a place, you need to blah blah blah, You know, don't take it personally. That's the third thing. You're overtaking things personally.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
In business, you know, when you lose business or what have you, It's not about you. And if you have that even if it is about you attitude, you can just let it roll off Your back like, you know, water off a duck's back. And I think guys have the ability to do that really, really well. And I wonder if it has to do with testosterone and estrogen and, you know, where that comes from biologically. Mhmm. I don't know. Generally speaking, guys have the ability to do that, and gals just don't necessarily. So you just have to buck up and just make yourself do these things.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And not like, I do nudges for myself in order to develop that strength and to remind of what I wanna do. So are you like this, Terry? In my bathroom, I have, like, 5, you know, sayings. Mhmm. You know, like, you know, confidence, You know, be strong or what have you. And I need those things around me to remind me of during those times When I'm feeling like I just went over the edge, I I went too far. Mhmm. By the way, I you know, I've had I've had Male leaders in particular, you know, you have a a chip on your shoulder, they will say to And I thought about that, and I thought, yeah, they're probably right, and that's okay.
Teri Schmidt:
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Yeah. Mhmm. So so own it. Own who you are and what you wanna do, and and and I I think that's so important for, the female leader. I was talking yesterday to a group of undergraduates, and there were a couple of women that were uncomfortable with the idea of asking for The amount of money they wanted. If you're negotiating first your first, pay. And I told them, you know, if Somebody says to you, how much would you like? You don't respond with a number. You respond with, what I'd like is the most that you can give because I'm the best.
Teri Schmidt:
Mhmm.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And then and the women said, oh, I don't know. I don't think I could do that. I was like, why not? Give it a try. Okay. Practice right now. Practice.
Teri Schmidt:
Uh-huh.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
And you know as much as I do when it comes to being a strong leader, just generally speaking, being a Female leader. And then when it comes to being an ethical leader, it's about practice. Anything that matters to you takes practice, and ethics is like to in any of the leadership tools. So then, you know, put yourself in front of a mirror and say things like, I I don't know, but whatever is the most you can give me is what I, is what I will take or something like that.
Teri Schmidt:
Yeah. Yeah. And it it it can take some work sometime. I know you were referencing earlier, you know, the challenges with confidence at times. And, But I think, like you said, when you have that vision for how you want to show up so I like to think of values As descriptors of the person you want to become. I don't know if you're familiar with James Clear and Atomic Habits, but, you know, he talks about The identity based habits. So what type of leader do you want to show up as? And you may have different motivations for showing up In that way, some leaders, you know, they want to show up confident because they wanna support those who they are leading, and they wanna advocate for them, and they need to keep that in mind when they're thinking about confidence and showing up in that way. But if you have those kinda north stars of This is how I want to show up, and you can then, like you said, develop the habits that remind you of that and that help you to get you to that point.
Teri Schmidt:
I think that's where you you become uniquely you and make your unique contribution as a leader.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
So I love that point and to build it based on something that I talked about with the ethical
Teri Schmidt:
Yeah.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
You know, somebody who has a responsibility lens will want to build themselves towards Really recognizing their duties, recognizing what the rules are and playing by the rules, knowing their intentions, what really matters to them. That's the responsibility lens. The aspirational lens has more of a a a softness to it Mhmm. I had more of a like, what character traits do I want? So so, you know, it all depends upon which lens you have Yeah. As to what you want those sticky notes to look like and what you want those those things to be that you're aspiring to, if you see what I mean. The fairness led I wanna I wanna aspire to really understanding, you know, how I can make sure the people at the bottom of the food chain, that's the way I put it, As equitably as people at the top. Yeah. And so that's a different desire.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
So once again, that's why knowing one's The lens is good for the exercise you just described.
Teri Schmidt:
Agreed. Agreed. And because you you need to know the why behind those behaviors. So even, like, you were talking about, you know, trying to get some of the students to do that behavior when they're negotiating. If they could frame that from a perspective of this is why I want to do that, then they're more likely to be able to do it. It feels more authentic.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Beautiful. That's exactly the right way to put it.
Teri Schmidt:
Well, this has been a wonderful conversation. I I really appreciate your time. If people Want to get to know a little bit more about you. Where is the best place for them to go?
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Yeah. In terms of social media, I do LinkedIn more than any other. So just look for my name, Beverly Crocker, and it's pronounced like the cake mix, but spelled in the old German way, k r c h e r. Also, my email, is beverlycrocker@gmail.com, or you can get a hold of me at Creighton University. Just, You know, go to their website, you'll find me there. So any service I can provide, because, you know, strong leaders serve, Very happy to help if I can be of service in any way. So, yes, please, anyone listening, reach out, Have a conversation, and let me help.
Teri Schmidt:
Oh, excellent. Well, we'll make sure all of those get into the show notes so that they're easy to find. But thank you again for the work you do, and congrats again on getting recognized for that work. It's Ethics, I think, will never never go away from being important incredibly important. So the fact that you have dedicated your life to that And made such a big impact in the Omaha community, I think, is incredible. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for sharing your journey.
Dr. Bev Kracher:
Well, I appreciate it. It's been a blast talking to you. Thank you so much for having me on.